Afghanistan: “We need to see women aid workers back at work”
A transcript of remarks by Martin Griffiths, UN humanitarian chief; Omar Abdi, Deputy Executive Director for Programmes, UNICEF; Janti Soeripto, President & Chief Executive Officer of Save the Children US; and Sofía Sprechmann Sineiro, Secretary General of Care International (joining remotely) at a press briefing on their recent visit to Afghanistan.
Martin Griffiths, UN Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator: “So I wanted to start by saying, indeed, precisely because this, we were colleagues on this mission, that the Inter-Agency Standing Committee is a committee that I chair, and which has the leaders of the world's humanitarian agencies, and represented here today, and with Sofia online. And so, it was the IASC, the Inter-Agency Standing Committee, which asked us four to go to Kabul to look into the effects of the ban on women being employed in national and local and international NGOs and humanitarian work that was promulgated, as you know, on the 24th of December. So, it was an IASC mission, not a UN mission. I was there as part of the Inter-Agency Standing Committee. In Kabul, we spent three or four days there last week. We'll hear more about the details. We met, of course, particularly, and often, the representatives of humanitarian agencies in Afghanistan, the humanitarian country team, we met our own colleagues in UNAMA, in the mission, and we also had meetings with the Taliban authorities. We met with nine Taliban leaders, ranging from the de facto Acting Minister of Foreign Affairs, de facto Acting Minister of the Economy, the first and the second Deputy Prime Minister, the Minister of the Interior, and so on and so forth. Now, what happened after the edict on the 24th of December, a few days later, was the Minister of Public Health in Afghanistan saying that this edict would not apply in the health sector. He made an exception, or an authorization, to allow and enable and protect the role of women, a central function for humanitarian action anywhere in the world, in the health sector. And that was followed a few days later by a similar exception in the education sector, focused particularly on primary education, because as we know, there are already edicts stopping women and girls benefiting from education at the different levels. So there already was a record of exceptions. And in addition to making clear our grave concern about the edict itself, we then also said, okay, if you're not rescinding the edict now, then we must expand these exceptions to cover all the aspects of humanitarian action. And it was, that was the agenda with which we met all those de facto Taliban leaders. So we expressed our opposition to the ban, hope for it to be rescinded, and in the meantime asked for it to be, further sectors to be granted these exceptions or authorizations for the role and the function of women. In all these meetings, we were told that indeed, these such arrangements would be forthcoming. And not for the first time, in my experience of working with the Taliban over these last two or three decades, we were asked to be patient. As I have said publicly, we were told that guidelines are being developed by the Taliban authorities, and which would provide, allegedly, the role of functioning of women in the humanitarian operations. I just want to make one last point before handing the floor to Sofia. I'm somebody who doesn't like to speculate too much, because it is a matter of speculation. Let's see if these guidelines do come through. Let's see if they are beneficial. Let's see what space there is for the essential and central role of women in our humanitarian operations. Everybody has opinions as to whether it's going to work or not. Our view is that the message has clearly been delivered that women are central, essential workers in the humanitarian sector, in addition to having rights, and we need to see them back to work. And in that regard, we need to maintain humanitarian operations in the sectors already, health and education, but expand that to the others. Thank you.”
Sofia Sprechmann Sineiro, Secretary General of Care International: “Thank you, thank you Martin, and to all the members of the press for joining us today – your role in shining a spotlight on this tragic situation in Afghanistan has truly never been so critical as it is today. Because the situation is now critical. Two thirds of the Afghan population, that is 28 million people, are in dire need of aid, with six million one step away from famine. As we all know, the crisis is driven by three years of drought-like conditions, a crippling economic decline, and the effects of 40 years of conflict. During our visit last week, we saw first-hand how Afghans are facing what is now the coldest winter of the last 15 years. With temperatures falling as low as minus 29 degrees Celsius, this cold has led to the loss of many lives, as we have seen in the last days in the news. For communities across Afghanistan, and particularly for women and children, the situation is truly horrendous. The ongoing erosion of women and girls’ rights is making the situation for them and their families far worse. We visited a clinic on the outskirts of Kabul run by UNICEF with a local partner. And since the authorisation of the de facto authorities to continue health and nutrition activities with female staff, these critical services now operate again. I met a mother who was there with three of her seven children, all under the age of 12. Her youngest child, just a baby, was severely malnourished. And in sub-freezing conditions, they arrived with holes in their thin clothes, no socks on. They told us that they have no money for food, or for heating, and how her and her children went to bed every night hungry and cold. The staff at the clinic shared horrific statistics with us: 15 per cent of the children seeking help had severe acute malnutrition. This is simply unacceptable. These, and other services are the backbone of the humanitarian response in Afghanistan, where local and international NGOs carry out 70 per cent of the humanitarian response. So let there be no ambiguity; tying the hands of NGOs by barring women from giving lifesaving support to other women, will cost lives. We are insisting on the repeal of the edict and as Martin said, we are also seeking additional authorizations or exemptions for other sectors so that NGOs, both local and international, can continue their life saving work in ways that do not discriminate. We stand of course firm in our support and solidarity with the people of Afghanistan. Thank you.”
Omar Abdi, Deputy Executive Director for Programmes, United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF): “In addition to the ban, we have also requested and advocated for the full inclusion of girls and women in public life, and especially in public secondary education and tertiary education. The numbers are alarming. More than 1 million girls who should have been in secondary schools have lost out on learning for three years now – first, due to COVID and then, since September 2021, due to the ban on attending secondary school. With the recent announcement, on 20th December, that bars women from university and educational centers, the hopes of Afghan girls and women to learn and work again have been crushed. We are very concerned about girls’ and women’s development, and particularly their mental health. In 2023, if secondary school education remains closed, an estimated 215,000 girls who attended Grade 6 last year will, once again, be denied their right to learn. As bleak as it is, the people of Afghanistan have not given up, and we must not too. There are some positive signs. Since the ban preventing girls from attending secondary school, an estimated 200,000 girls continue to attend secondary schools in around 12 provinces, and female secondary school teachers continue to receive their salaries from the de facto authority. The officials we met in Kabul that Martin talked about last week reaffirmed that they are not against girls learning in secondary schools, and again promised to reopen once the guidelines are approved by their leader. In addition, over the last year, the number of Community-Based Education classes taking place in private homes/public places has doubled from 10,000 to 20,000 classes. These serve about 600,000 children, of whom 55 per cent are girls. They reach children who have never been to school because of the access we have now to many parts of the country that were inaccessible before due to the conflict. These positive signs are the results of both commitment from the de facto authorities and pressure from local communities to keep schools and community schools open. As long as communities continue to demand education, we must continue to support both public and other forms of education, community-based classrooms, catch-up classes and vocational training. Without education, certainly there is no hope for a better future for girls and women of Afghanistan. Thank you.”
Janti Soeripto, President and CEO of Save the Children US: "Thank you for being here. We had the privilege to not only visit the treatment centre and speak to the de facto authorities, but we also spoke to a lot of the local partners, NGO partners, on the ground, Afghan women and men, many of them women led. Their message was very clear: They want to restart and continue the work, resume the classes, provide the healthcare, support children and women and men. These women intend to work. One of the partners looked me right in the eye and she said, Afghan women will always work, that is how this country works, no matter what anyone says. The communities want this reversal, too. As Omar was saying, local communities are asking for their health care facilities to be reopened, by women and men. They ask for their classes to be resumed. If the ban isn't reversed, the consequences for the people of Afghanistan will be dire, and that's the message we've also taken to the de facto authorities. And the humanitarian costs are significant. Without women on our teams, we cannot provide humanitarian services to millions of children and women. We won't be able to identify their needs, communicate to female head of households, of which there are many in Afghanistan, after years and years of conflict, and to do so in a safe and culturally appropriate way. The economic costs are significant, too, something we've tried to also impress upon the de facto authorities. Women account for 30 per cent of the 55,000 Afghan nationals working for NGOs in country. Many of them are sole breadwinners. So, if they don't work, they have no money to support their families. We’ve made it very clear that humanitarian aid must never be conditional, and it cannot discriminate. We were not there to politicize aid. We cannot do this work without women in all aspects of our value chains. Now, as you've heard, there has been some progress. And we're hopeful that we're continuing these discussions across the various provinces to resume our work where we can and keep the space also where we can, but we also need the support of the international community. Donor countries must continue to support a unified, principled response that includes men and women, and refrain from freezing or withholding this flexible funding that we so desperately need. We need the international community to stand by and not give [up] hope on the women, girls and men and boys in Afghanistan. Thank you.”
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Questions and Answers
Question: Thank you so much. Thank you, on behalf of UNCA, for this press conference. Valeria Robecco from ANSA news wire. So, my question is, is there any opening from the Taliban Government on the aspect of the cooperation with the UN agencies and the NGOs on the fight against hunger? And can you comment also on the new, on the new news that the Taliban-run Ministry of Higher Education or that the private universities are not to allow female students to take university entrance exams? Thank you so much.
Martin Griffiths: The opening from the Taliban authorities, well, as I said, we met with a wide range of Taliban leaders. They consistently gave us this message that there will be a place for women working [inaudible] but it's an important one. And we will see. We will see if that comes to fruition. It's already true that health and education sectors have these exceptions. We want to have it more than an exception, we want to have it as a norm, obviously. But there is a clear interest, as Janti was saying, the people of Afghanistan depend on this assistance, 28 million of them. It's the largest humanitarian aid program in the world ever, the Afghanistan programme, $4.6 billion for this year, just for our organizations. So, we wait and see, and hopefully we won't wait too long. Because every day that goes by without proper functioning humanitarian aid is not a good day for the people of Afghanistan. And you're right, the new news making women's education even more [inaudible] is unfortunately part of a pattern that we have been seeing since this, in this last year. And of course, all of us, as Omar was saying, want to see that reversed, that pattern disrupted and put aside. Thank you.
Question: Thank you, Michelle Nichols from Reuters. Thank you so much for the briefing. A question for you, Under-Secretary-General. Given that the UN is focused on getting the exceptions rather than rescinding the ban, because you've said that's probably not going to happen, what are some of the areas where … Sorry, let me start that again. What is the UN’s, sort of, policy thoughts on male-only programming to still deliver some of this aid in the sectors that don't have exceptions at the moment? Have any adjustments been made to ensure that some delivery of aid is still going out? And then have you seen any cases of this ban actually being implemented, like in a province where a woman has been out delivering aid and has been told not to?
Martin Griffiths: Can I just take, just one bit of that. Thank you. It's a very practical matter, as well as a matter of rights and entitlements, to have women working in humanitarian aid programmes in Afghanistan in particular, but around the world, Yemen, Syria, Venezuela, you name it. And it's a practical matter, because programmes cannot reach women and cannot understand the situation of women and girls without employing women. So, men-only programming is not merely a subjugation of women, but it's also inadequate programming. It doesn't work, as simple as that.
So yes, there are effects of the ban, which Janti will talk about. There are still activities that are ongoing where men-only is, for example, delivering food, but it can't, it can't work. Food distribution, for example, needs women to understand how it can reach the most vulnerable. The most vulnerable population in any humanitarian aid programme, including in Afghanistan, are women and girls. We need women to be able to work with them for them. So, it's a very simple one.
Question: Just a quick follow-up on that. So, when it comes to food distribution, that's by WFP, so women were involved, and now it's just men for the moment until you can get that exception?
Martin Griffiths: We’re very much talking … I mean, food, protection, disaster response, the whole range of the activities encompassed by a four-and-a-half billion-dollar programme, we went through all these sectors as to why they're crucially important and why in all cases, they need women. And so, if the ban isn’t gotten rid of, which would be a good thing, then we need all these exemptions across the landscape.
[Remarks by Save the Children’s Janti Soeripto]
Question: Hi, this is Dezhi Xu with China Central Television. Basically, two questions. First, I believe you have already mentioned that since it's already been a month since this ban on women for NGOs, I'm sorry, do you have any statistics how much impact does this have so far for the UN operations in Afghanistan? And what's your projection if this continues? And second, Mr. Griffiths, you mentioned it is practical to ask Taliban for the authorizations or exceptions. But do you believe the international community should give more tough measures or tough rhetoric on Taliban to abandon the whole policy on women?
Martin Griffiths: I might try the second bit. Yeah. I'd be very interested to learn examples, perhaps from you, of where ‘tough’ quote-unquote, rhetoric, punitive measures have worked with the Taliban. I've been working with the Taliban for the last 30 years, and I can't immediately think of an example of that. And the Taliban in that sense are no different from people elsewhere.
Of course, I spent a lot of time working in Yemen, and I was constantly being asked by the people in the region, you have to call out, you have to blame, you have to punish, as if this was an incentive for good behavior. Our approach is, I think you've heard from all of us, is to identify very clearly to the Taliban the consequences of that edict and those decisions and to identify very clearly to the people of Afghanistan, the consequences of that Taliban decision. Where I'm told, and Janti was mentioning it, I'm told that one of the most effective channels for advocacy with the Taliban is in fact people in those communities whose lives have been changed by that edict.
It’s not in Europe that this will be decided. It's in the communities and corridors of power in Afghanistan. So our job is to identify clearly the consequences, exploit any opportunities that may exist for us to be able to work effectively, and to continue to advocate internationally for a fair and just Afghanistan.
[Remarks by Abdi]
Question: But is there any impact so far for this ban on women?
[Remarks by Soeripto]
Martin Griffiths: Can I just add to that, just two sentences. Exactly as Janti says, and I don't want to have any of us have any illusions about the huge gravity of this situation. I mean, it's a potential death blow to many, many very important humanitarian programmes in what we have described as one of the most difficult and priority areas for humanitarian assistance protection. If we don't get those exceptions, and if they're not reinforced, as Janti said, locally, then those activities won't happen. And this would be catastrophic. So the case has been made, and we're waiting for the judge to come out with a verdict.
Question: So to follow up on that point, can you quantify, perhaps, how much of a reduction is happening or how many … Also, a number of aid agencies have stopped working altogether, do you know how many have stopped working, maybe, Janti? Temporarily, just for a number?
[Remarks by Soeripto]
Martin Griffiths: We can provide follow-up details.
Question: And are you worried about the bans on women actually being extended? There’s some talk about diplomatic women also facing restrictions.
Martin Griffiths: Yeah. Yes, I mean, UN agencies, for example, still don't have the ban on its operation. I have to say that that isn't a welcome thought for the UN, because every aid programme around the world is a synergy between the different agencies. But as of now, UN Women [inaudible] are allowed to work. And it wouldn't be very welcome if that other shoe fell. But as I say, we've watched, we've all watched the pattern of edicts. And we need to see, quite apart from this one, which is so important, we need to see education for women and girls brought back. We need to see the productivity of women, and that Janti was referring to that earlier, put into the economy. Afghanistan is going through a savage winter, the second under the Taliban. Last winter, we managed to survive. I don't know if we can do this indefinitely, not with these bans.
So we need, we need to work with the Taliban, to move them, to show how the people of Afghanistan need to be treated.
Question: Thank you so much for this briefing, this is Maryam Rahmati, Afghanistan international TV. In an interview you said, winter is with us, people are dying, famine is looming, we don't have time. Mr. Griffiths, I'm sure you have told the Taliban exactly these sentences. What was their reaction? Are they at all worried about Afghanistan’s situation, the economic situation? And one more question, if I may. You're talking about exception. How can exception be long-term solution for the situation and the problem that Afghan women are facing, including all human, basic human rights, and rights to education? Thank you so much.
Martin Griffiths: I don't think humanitarian aid is a long-term solution. It's a temporary response to crisis. The long-term solution for the people of Afghanistan, of course, is not what we're sent out there to deal with. It's obviously much more important than what we were talking about. I think we are all very conscious of the need for Afghanistan to play its full role with the liberation of its people in the region and elsewhere. It's incredibly important, because of the geography, because of the merits of its people, and as I say, I have been dealing with Afghanistan now since 1981. It's vital. But our issues were about trying to get this program to work. And, you know, one thing that I know from my own experience in Afghanistan is that we're always being required to find ways around difficult decisions, whether it's from the Taliban or other administrations or governments.
I negotiated in Kabul in 1998, on behalf of the UN, these same issues, and signed a memorandum of understanding with the Taliban, on these same issues, the mahram, the access to education for girls. We stumble along, but stumbling is better than leaving. Thank you.
Question: And the sense that you got from the Taliban during the negotiations and talks, are they worried about the situation at all, the economy?
Martin Griffiths: I, you know, you ask them that. I'm sure you have asked them that. I can't speak for them. I can tell you what they said. And that's welcome, that they said that they understand the needs. But it's more of a longer conversation, isn't it? And it's more of an in-depth understanding, which our colleagues in the field have, because they're there, you know, all the time. Our visit was intended as an intervention to move a specific decision. Let's see.
[Remarks by Sineiro]