Press conference by UN Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator Martin Griffiths upon his return from Afghanistan, New York, 30 January 2023

So I wanted to start by saying, indeed, precisely because this, we were colleagues on this mission, that the Inter-Agency Standing Committee is a committee that I chair, and which has the leaders of the world's humanitarian agencies, and represented here today, and with Sofia online. And so it was the IASC, the Inter-Agency Standing Committee, which asked us four to go to Kabul to look into the effects of the ban on women being employed in national and local and international NGOs and humanitarian work that was promulgated, as you know, on the 24th of December. So it was an IASC mission, not a UN mission. I was there as part of the Inter-Agency Standing Committee. In Kabul, we spent three or four days there last week. We'll hear more about the details. We met, of course, particularly, and often, the representatives of humanitarian agencies in Afghanistan, the humanitarian country team, we met our own colleagues in UNAMA, in the mission, and we also had meetings with the Taliban authorities. We met with nine Taliban leaders, ranging from the de facto Acting Minister of Foreign Affairs, de facto Acting Minister of the Economy, the first and the second Deputy Prime Minister, the Minister of the Interior, and so on and so forth. Now, what happened after the edict on the 24th of December, a few days later, was the Minister of Public Health in Afghanistan saying that this edict would not apply in the health sector. He made an exception, or an authorization, to allow and enable and protect the role of women, a central function for humanitarian action anywhere in the world, in the health sector. And that was followed a few days later by a similar exception in the education sector, focused particularly on primary education, because as we know, there are already edicts stopping women and girls benefiting from education at the different levels. So there already was a record of exceptions. And in addition to making clear our grave concern about the edict itself, we then also said, okay, if you're not rescinding the edict now, then we must expand these exceptions to cover all the aspects of humanitarian action. And it was, that was the agenda with which we met all those de facto Taliban leaders. So we expressed our opposition to the ban, hope for it to be rescinded, and in the meantime asked for it to be, further sectors to be granted these exceptions or authorizations for the role and the function of women. In all these meetings, we were told that indeed, these such arrangements would be forthcoming. And not for the first time, in my experience of working with the Taliban over these last two or three decades, we were asked to be patient. As I have said publicly, we were told that guidelines are being developed by the Taliban authorities, and which would provide, allegedly, the role of functioning of women in the humanitarian operations. I just want to make one last point before handing the floor to Sofia.

I'm somebody who doesn't like to speculate too much, because it is a matter of speculation. Let's see if these guidelines do come through. Let's see if they are beneficial. Let's see what space there is for the essential and central role of women in our humanitarian operations. Everybody has opinions as to whether it's going to work or not. Our view is that the message has clearly been delivered that women are central, essential workers in the humanitarian sector, in addition to having rights, and we need to see them back to work. And in that regard, we need to maintain humanitarian operations in the sectors already, health and education, but expand that to the others. Thank you.

[Remarks by Sofia Sprechmann Sineiro, Secretary General of Care International]

[Remarks by Omar Abdi, Deputy Executive Director for Programmes, United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF)]

[Remarks by Janti Soeripto, President and CEO of Save the Children US]

**Questions and Answers

Question: Thank you so much. Thank you, on behalf of UNCA, for this press conference. Valeria Robecco from ANSA news wire. So, my question is, is there any opening from the Taliban government on the aspect of the cooperation with the UN agencies and the NGOs on the fight against hunger? And can you comment also on the new, on the new news that the Taliban-run Ministry of Higher Education or that the private universities are not to allow female students to take university entrance exams? Thank you so much.

Martin Griffiths: The opening from the Taliban authorities, well, as I said, we met with a wide range of Taliban leaders. They consistently gave us this message that there will be a place for women working [inaudible] but it's an important one. And we will see. We will see if that comes to fruition. It's already true that health and education sectors have these exceptions. We want to have it more than an exception, we want to have it as a norm, obviously. But there is a clear interest, as Janti was saying, the people of Afghanistan depend on this assistance, 28 million of them. It's the largest humanitarian aid program in the world ever, the Afghanistan program, $4.6 billion for this year, just for our organizations. So we wait and see, and hopefully we won't wait too long. Because every day that goes by without proper functioning humanitarian aid is not a good day for the people of Afghanistan. And you're right, the new news making women's education even more [inaudible] is unfortunately part of a pattern that we have been seeing since this, in this last year. And of course, all of us, as Omar was saying, want to see that reversed, that pattern disrupted and put aside. Thank you.

Question: Thank you, Michelle Nichols from Reuters. Thank you so much for the briefing. A question for you, Under-Secretary-General. Given that the UN is focused on getting the exceptions rather than rescinding the ban, because you've said that's probably not going to happen, what are some of the areas where … Sorry, let me start that again. What is the UN’s, sort of, policy thoughts on male-only programming to still deliver some of this aid in the sectors that don't have exceptions at the moment? Have any adjustments been made to ensure that some delivery of aid is still going out? And then have you seen any cases of this ban actually being implemented, like in a province where a woman has been out delivering aid and has been told not to?

Martin Griffiths: Can I just take, just one bit of that. Thank you. It's a very practical matter, as well as a matter of rights and entitlements, to have women working in humanitarian aid programs in Afghanistan in particular, but around the world, Yemen, Syria, Venezuela, you name it. And it's a practical matter, because programs cannot reach women and cannot understand the situation of women and girls without employing women. So men-only programming is not merely a subjugation of women, but it's also inadequate programming. It doesn't work, as simple as that. So yes, there are effects of the ban, which Janti will talk about. There are still activities that are ongoing where men-only is, for example, delivering food, but it can't, it can't work. Food distribution, for example, needs women to understand how it can reach the most vulnerable. The most vulnerable population in any humanitarian aid program, including in Afghanistan, are women and girls. We need women to be able to work with them for them. So it's a very simple one.

Question: Just a quick follow-up on that. So, when it comes to food distribution, that's by WFP, so women were involved, and now it's just men for the moment until you can get that exception?

Martin Griffiths: We’re very much talking … I mean, food, protection, disaster response, the whole range of the activities encompassed by a four-and-a-half billion-dollar program, we went through all these sectors as to why they're crucially important and why in all cases, they need women. And so, if the ban isn’t gotten rid of, which would be a good thing, then we need all these exemptions across the landscape.

[Remarks by Janti Soeripto, President and CEO of Save the Children US]

Question: Thank you very much, everyone. Edith Lederer from the Associated Press. First, the World Food Programme has said that malnutrition rates in Afghanistan are at a record high. You’ve all mentioned that. What's the impact already? Are hundreds, thousands of people facing starvation, starving to death already? And a second question on this year's needs for $4.6 billion.
Is what the Taliban is doing to crack down on women and girls and also women in the workforce having an impact on donors?

[Remarks by Omar Abdi, Deputy Executive Director for Programmes, United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF)]

[Remarks by Janti Soeripto, President and CEO of Save the Children US]

Question: Just to follow up, you said you need to have it continue. Is it continuing, or is there a fear that because of the impact of what the Taliban is doing to girls and women, that you're not going to get the support that you need?

[Remarks by Sofia Sprechmann Sineiro, Secretary General of Care International]

Question: Hi, this is Dezhi Xu with China Central Television. Basically, two questions. First, I believe you have already mentioned that since it's already been a month since this ban on women for NGOs, I'm sorry, do you have any statistics how much impact does this have so far for the UN operations in Afghanistan? And what's your projection if this continues? And second, Mr. Griffiths, you mentioned it is practical to ask Taliban for the authorizations or exceptions. But do you believe the international community should give more tough measures or tough rhetoric on Taliban to abandon the whole policy on women?

Martin Griffiths: I might try the second bit. Yeah. I'd be very interested to learn examples, perhaps from you, of where ‘tough’ quote-unquote, rhetoric, punitive measures have worked with the Taliban. I've been working with the Taliban for the last 30 years, and I can't immediately think of an example of that. And the Taliban in that sense are no different from people elsewhere. Of course, I spent a lot of time working in Yemen, and I was constantly being asked by the people in the region, you have to call out, you have to blame, you have to punish, as if this was an incentive for good behavior. Our approach is, I think you've heard from all of us, is to identify very clearly to the Taliban the consequences of that edict and those decisions and to identify very clearly to the people of Afghanistan, the consequences of that Taliban decision. Where I'm told, and Janti was mentioning it, I'm told that one of the most effective channels for advocacy with the Taliban is in fact people in those communities whose lives have been changed by that edict. It’s not in Europe that this will be decided. It's in the communities and corridors of power in Afghanistan. So our job is to identify clearly the consequences, exploit any opportunities that may exist for us to be able to work effectively, and to continue to advocate internationally for a fair and just Afghanistan.

[Remarks by Omar Abdi, Deputy Executive Director for Programmes, United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF)]

Question: But is there any impact so far for this ban on women?

[Remarks by Janti Soeripto, President and CEO of Save the Children US]

Martin Griffiths: Can I just add to that, just two sentences. Exactly as Janti says, and I don't want to have any of us have any illusions about the huge gravity of this situation. I mean, it's a potential death blow to many, many very important humanitarian programs in what we have described as one of the most difficult and priority areas for humanitarian assistance protection. If we don't get those exceptions, and if they're not reinforced, as Janti said, locally, then those activities won't happen. And this would be catastrophic. So the case has been made, and we're waiting for the judge to come out with a verdict.

Question: So to follow up on that point, can you quantify, perhaps, how much of a reduction is happening or how many … Also, a number of aid agencies have stopped working altogether, do you know how many have stopped working, maybe, Janti? Temporarily, just for a number?

[Remarks by Janti Soeripto, President and CEO of Save the Children US]

Martin Griffiths: We can provide follow-up details.

Question: And are you worried about the bans on women actually being extended? There’s some talk about diplomatic women also facing restrictions.

Martin Griffiths: Yeah. Yes, I mean, UN agencies, for example, still don't have the ban on its operation. I have to say that that isn't a welcome thought for the UN, because every aid program around the world is a synergy between the different agencies. But as of now, UN Women [inaudible] are allowed to work. And it wouldn't be very welcome if that other shoe fell. But as I say, we've watched, we've all watched the pattern of edicts. And we need to see, quite apart from this one, which is so important, we need to see education for women and girls brought back. We need to see the productivity of women, and that Janti was referring to that earlier, put into the economy. Afghanistan is going through a savage winter, the second under the Taliban. Last winter, we managed to survive. I don't know if we can do this indefinitely, not with these bans. So we need, we need to work with the Taliban, to move them, to show how the people of Afghanistan need to be treated.

Question: Thank you so much for this briefing, this is Maryam Rahmati, Afghanistan international TV. In an interview you said, winter is with us, people are dying, famine is looming, we don't have time. Mr. Griffiths, I'm sure you have told the Taliban exactly these sentences. What was their reaction? Are they at all worried about Afghanistan’s situation, the economic situation? And one more question, if I may. You're talking about exception. How can exception be long-term solution for the situation and the problem that Afghan women are facing, including all human, basic human rights, and rights to education? Thank you so much.

Martin Griffiths: I don't think humanitarian aid is a long-term solution. It's a temporary response to crisis. The long-term solution for the people of Afghanistan, of course, is not what we're sent out there to deal with. It's obviously much more important than what we were talking about. I think we are all very conscious of the need for Afghanistan to play its full role with the liberation of its people in the region and elsewhere. It's incredibly important, because of the geography, because of the merits of its people, and as I say, I have been dealing with Afghanistan now since 1981. It's vital. But our issues were about trying to get this program to work. And, you know, one thing that I know from my own experience in Afghanistan is that we're always being required to find ways around difficult decisions, whether it's from the Taliban or other administrations or governments. I negotiated in Kabul in 1998, on behalf of the UN, these same issues, and signed a memorandum of understanding with the Taliban, on these same issues, the mahram, the access to education for girls. We stumble along, but stumbling is better than leaving. Thank you.

Question: And the sense that you got from the Taliban during the negotiations and talks, are they worried about the situation at all, the economy?

Martin Griffiths: I, you know, you ask them that. I'm sure you have asked them that. I can't speak for them. I can tell you what they said. And that's welcome, that they said that they understand the needs. But it's more of a longer conversation, isn't it? And it's more of an in-depth understanding, which our colleagues in the field have, because they're there, you know, all the time. Our visit was intended as an intervention to move a specific decision. Let's see.

[Remarks by Sofia Sprechmann Sineiro, Secretary General of Care International]